What is Hybris (hubris)? Do Antigone and Creon have hybris? Are there passages as well as events that provide evidence for them having hybris? May there have been a political message in Creon's downfall?
Leave a long and thoughtful comment, by next Wednesday, if you wish to do well........
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hey ms b, first, u weren't there today, n neither was half the class. We didn't really know what to do but we did all the first 10 questions on the sheet. We tried to start the other ones u had for us under the first 10, but we kinda shut down after a solid 30 min of work and no talking other than work talk..unbelievable i know.
As i was under the impression that we were answering questions as a group, as well as answering questions that we were up to reading together as a group, i have noooooo idea what ur talking about because i didn't finish the play, only half way through. So as there was no due date given to us today or on here, know that i will be finishing the play and answering some time this weekend. it will b done for ya soooooo chill. ok cool, and lili200 is alisha, just incase u still didn't know.
cool cat, dans going to bed now..will answer soon...very soon...
Dan da man,
The instructions, I thought, were pretty clear. Never mind.
It is a shame that our classes actually go for more than 30 minutes..... this seems to be the main problem. I will think on this further, before i launch into another one of my fruitless tirades.
kb
Hybris or Hubris was a crime in ancient Athens,It is an action that is undertaken to place shame upon someone else, which usually resulted in assualt. the modern word Hybris is another word for self pride or self confidence, so in that case yes Antigone and Creon do have pride & confidence as they both believe in themselves so much that it would lead to their own or sons death.
"The punishment of disobiedience is death by stoning", This quote shows how confident Creon is of himself, he will take anothers life just to keep his pride, even when it becomes his sons life, but after he does have a turn about.
"I will bury my brother; And if i die for it, what happiness!", This proves that Antigone is over confident of her plan and is even willing to die for her pride and her brothers. This is also a selfish act as if she dies then she'll leave her sister alone willingly just because she has too much pride for her family, but whta of the Isemene.
I believe there was a political message threw Creons downfall, such as; Always stand up for what you believe in but not when it goes in the way of your family or friends.
P.S. This isn't as long as Adeles but though
Hubris, the excessive pride exhibited by characters in a story, is evident in both Antigone and Creon throughout the story. They both consider their own actions as righteous, and take pride in what they are doing is above everyone else.
Antigone shows how much she takes pride in her devotion to her brother when she says to Ismene, "And now is the time to show whether or not you are worthy of your high blood" She clearly places herself in a high standing because of her origins. Also, "I know my duty, where true duty lies", which reinforces her pride, or hubris, over her actions, where she believes that her course of action is the only reputable and honourable course of action. Antigone sees herself as a martyr of sorts, claiming she "honoured those things to which honour truly belongs" and poured the "due libations" on her family's graves. She constantly justifies her actions to solidify her pride.
Creon also exhibits pride, taking the typical Greek drama form of comparing himself to the gods. He believes that "[he] is king, and responsible only to [himself]", choosing to not "twist the law to one's own pleasure" when Haemon tries to appeal to his father, despite the fact that in becoming king himself he has twisted the law. Creon also thinks himself a law unto himself, by asking "since when do I take my orders from the people of Thebes?". He clearly takes the idea of pride so far as to ignore the suggestions and even demands of others in favour of his own feelings and beliefs.
Hybris (or hubris if you are for english translations, which I guess we are...), simply put, is exaggerated pride or self-confidence. According to the more elaborate Wikipedia entry, it often results in fatal retribution, and so happened to be a crime back in period Greece, defined as 'actions taken in order to shame the victim, thereby making oneself seem superior'.
Second order of business. Creon is quite obviously hubristic (Yay for adjectival forms!). His rule is built on his mental cornerstone of 'I know what is right moreso than anyone else', reflected in such one-liners as "The people of Thebes! Since when do I take my orders from the people of Thebes?" (Pg. 146) and "I say all prophets seek their own advantage." (Pg. 154).
Antigone's hubrism is questionable. True, she is prideful and confident, and as such I guess conforms to the hubris umbrella, but the exaggeration of stated attributes is what tugs me in the other direction. Aware of her royal decent and honor bound to do it justice, she doesn’t blow things out of proportion as with the ‘infallible Creon’ creed. Rather, her confidence stems from a willingness to do what needs to be done. “I know my duty, and where true duty lies” (Pg. 129) is the perfect representation of her conviction in her beliefs; a willingness to betray her state for the ‘will of the Gods’ without a second thought.
Lastly, Creon’s downfall. In essence, it was unavoidable, being the very-naughty-man of the plays (Oedipus at Colonus & Antigone). Messagewise, it appears merely to be a sentiment of ‘don’t hold blind faith in yourself’… or ‘don’t mess with Oedipus and Teiresias’… or ‘if you condemn a young girl to be trapped in a cave, then your son will kill himself after she invariably hangs herself, which with lead to your wife’s prompt suicide, and then you will feel very bad indeed’… but probably not.
- Darcy
I’m not completely, positively sure I am right, but I thought I would give it a go.
Hybris is a ‘tragic flaw’, which could be a wide variety of faults, such as pride, arrogance, over-confidence, or a failure to know oneself etc. also I think it also could be an ‘offence against the gods’, making the violator ‘destined for divine punishment’, I think this could tie in by their ‘tragic flaw’ being the cause for their offence against the gods.
Creon’s Hybris would have been his pride and arrogance, he was a new king and he couldn’t and wouldn’t be proven wrong, and wouldn’t change his mind once it was set, no matter who thought he was wrong. So his Hybris led to his attempt to violate human rights, by not letting Polynices be buried, and ultimately led to his downfall. Some examples that can support this would be when his son Haemon, tried to convince him to spare Antigone, even though he respected his father, he thought Creon was wrong in this decision, but Creon just got angry and refused to listen, accusing Haemon of being under a ‘female’ influence, but also because it was a younger man telling him he was wrong, something that obviously infuriated him. Then you have how Creon refused to listen to the blind prophet, Tiresias, when she/he warns him what he is doing is displeasing the gods by not obeying their laws (which would be the lack of burial) and that he is wrong, but his pride steps in, Creon say’s that Tiresias’ prophecies are a lie only to seek gain for the prophet. Even though Creon has ‘never wavered’ from the prophets advice before, he again doesn’t want to consider he is wrong.
I think the political message in Creon’s downfall would be that a man with such power shouldn’t be blind to his faults and not believe he is invincible and never wrong, and to seek advice from others before making drastic decisions that could possibly affect other people. Also that all that power and wealth of being king was nothing now, because of the burden of grief and guilt he now has to carry.
Antigone’s Hybris I would think would be over-confidence, pride and maybe her rebelliousness. While I think she had a good cause in seeking to gain her brothers burial, she also wouldn’t believe she was wrong, and believed any price was worth what she wanted, she didn’t consider what consequences might have come from her actions and refused to toe the line even in the end. She would rather hang than die in starvation, and ultimately what Creon had ordered her death to be. If she hadn’t done that last rebellion, she might have been alive, with other deaths spared as well. But if you look at it from the perspective of the gods, her death was needed in order for Haemon’s and Eurydice’s deaths to occur as well, which would have been Creon’s punishment for disregarding their order and/or human rights.
(i sent it to you in a email ,iss bares, but i figured out how to ork it before you could post it) i did this on the 27/5
As much as I would have loved to post something about Hubris, ive been quite dehabilitated as of late. Too much work, coupled with the presence of unhealthy comarades, has degraded my health to such an extent, that many millions of pathogens have decreed my body to be under their dominion. I'm most likely going to be absent for the remainder of this week, and the majority of next week. When im in a more able state of mind, which shall hopefully be this weekend, i will post my answer to the question in detail.
It seems that what hubris is has been thoroughly answered, Creon obviously has hubris as he intends to demean Polynices by denying him burial - one of the worst affronts imaginable. However i dont believe Antigone is hubristic. Sophocles would not have dented his chief character who according to one of your sites is "the highest ideal for all humanity". Hubris was a fatal flaw in Greek culture. Creating a hubristic Antigone would be like creating a superman/batman/harry potter or jack sparrow who tortures animals.
In Ancient Greek hubris referred to actions taken in order to shame a victim, thereby making oneself seem superior (from a dictionary). This action was often punished by the Gods, even though it wasn't strictly a religious matter.
Creon is obviously guilty of hubris as he denied Polynices a proper burial. This act did shame Polyneices in the face of the gods, but also shamed his family. This action made Creon look superior and powerful as Polyneices is a former King. By shaming Polynices in particular, Creon made himself even more authoritative, showing he had power over a person who had one ruled. As the Sentry tells Creon the news of Polynices' burial, it is evident that Creon had ordered for Polynices to be left unburied for superiority. The Sentry was terrified of Creon, thinking that he was "[hurrying] to [his] doom" by telling Creon the news. This reveals that Creon did gain power over others when he cast that order, that people now feared him and thought of him as superior.
However, Antigone is not guilty of hubris as she did not shame Creon on purpose. She did deny his order, however it was not her intention to shame him. She wanted to satisfy the gods and she believed had "a duty to the dead", to her brother Polynices. Although she did shame Creon, it did not result in her gaining any power or authority, she died for what she did, and gained nothing but satisfaction from burying her brother.
As for the political message in Creon's downfall, it is not to let power consume you and make you forget that the wise advice of others should be pondered throughly before a political decision is made. Creon ignored the advice of his son, Haemon, and the prophet Teiresias. His status and pride caused him to assume that his judgements were more superior than the judgements of the others, even the warning of the wisest prophet whose accurate predictions had built his reputation.
Hybris, which was considered a crime in Ancient Athens, is defined as being a "tragic flaw" such as pride or arrogance. It was typically accomponied by "divine punishment" that was carried out by the various gods.
Creon is definitely guilty of hybris. By denying Polynices burial an act in defiance of the gods Creon shows that he has such an abundance of pride,arrogance and superiority that he thought he could break the holy laws of heaven and get away with it. Creons attemt to assert his authority and show his superiority over Polynicies eventually leads to the death of the majority of his family. The fears that the sentry felt, "Why hurry to your doom, poor fool?", when he had to present bad news to Creon shows how Creon was asserting power over Thebes to show his superiority. In fact its not just the sentry who shows the fear of giving bad news o Creon but the entire guard who "drew lots for it". Creons pride is also shown by his statements such as "Since when do i take my orders from the people of Thebes" and "We'll have no women's law here, while i live."
Creons downfall was destined from the beginning. It brings a political message that if you let power consume you and cut you off from those who love you or seek to advise you then you have become nothing more than a tyranical leader who will eventually fall. This play demonstrates that if a system of government is to work there neeeds to be certain checks in place to ensure a leader does not become all powerfull or get corrupted by the power they wield.
Antigone demonstrates hybris in her pride and over confidence, however her actions were never motivated by the desire to be superior to Creon, which suggests that they aren't really hybristic. Although she presents some hybristic traits overall Antigone is not afflicted by hybris as her actions are motivated by her beliefs and duty to the gods.
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